laurainlimbo: (cheshire cat)
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in my effort to avoid all of the important things in life (exercise, studying, writing), I've been reading too much stuff on the internet. for all you Johnny Depp fans out there, I found this video slideshow of his adventures in gender-bending through the years. I've always loved him, and seeing all these clips makes me realize what a talented actor he really is. I haven't seen the movie Before Night Falls (though it was on my Netflix queue for about a year before I left the country). The only one of these I didn't like was Willy Wonka - Johnny went way over the top on that one, and his performance gave me nightmares! and of course on this slideshow they didn't include some of my favorite of his performances, like Donnie Brasco, Dead Man, Gilbert Grape, and Benny and Joon... (but I guess those were not considered "gender-bending"?)

I've decided that I don't want to see the new Alice movie. I'm sure that the whole cast is good in it, and I'm sure that visually it's very stunning... but I read this review on Slate's website, and it sounds like Tim Burton is taking WAYYY too many liberties with the story. I'm a purist - I can't see why people can't make movie adaptations that even slightly resemble the story, especially when you're dealing with something as classic as Lewis Carroll! And why make the Mad Hatter a love interest for Alice? there wasn't the slightest hint of that in the book.

I'm not trying to sound like a snob, but I wrote a paper on Alice's Adventures in Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass in college. I really loved everything about those stories! It's like seeing the Leonardo DiCaprio version of Romeo and Juliet - or any of these modern adaptations of Shakespeare. they don't work for me.

I know many people will disagree with me about this, but film adaptations work only when they stay true to the original author's vision. Why else do we want to see the film except to see a broader view of what we've read and loved?

anyway, that's enough of my soapbox. I'm back to staring at katakana and kanji and wondering if I'll ever learn Japanese well enough...
There are 30 comments on this entry. (Reply.)
 
posted by [identity profile] serialbathera.livejournal.com at 08:42am on 11/03/2010
that is sad that they deviated so much from the text. No one should blame you if you don't want to see it (or see it for that matter)

I think you are right for the most part movies should try to stay true to the source. (Though I am sure in some cases, the movie would make the source of the material a million times better, I thought of an example but I forgot it)

Good luck with your studying
 
posted by [identity profile] laurainlimbo.livejournal.com at 11:35pm on 11/03/2010
I guess it's an adaptation, so Burton felt he had creative, artistic license. but I guess I'm not interested - LOL!

there are probably examples of movies that were better than the books - I've heard that was the case with Gone with the Wind. But the classics like Alice are best read, I think:)

thanks hon!
*hugs*
 
posted by [identity profile] serialbathera.livejournal.com at 06:44am on 14/03/2010
True, sometimes those gambles with "adaptations" work well, and you enjoy it, and other times, not so much.

Hmm, I haven't heard that about Gone with the Wind, but I have had no desire to see movie, or watch book. I just read both Alice books for the first time recently and really enjoyed them. They are fun books :)

::hugs::
 
posted by [identity profile] laurainlimbo.livejournal.com at 10:38pm on 15/03/2010
Gone with the Wind is really a fantastic film - if you can sit through it! it's something close to four hours long. it takes patience:) the Alice books are great - and there's no copyright on them anymore, so I just downloaded a pdf file so I can read it again!

*hugs*
 
posted by [identity profile] serialbathera.livejournal.com at 07:39am on 16/03/2010
hmm, maybe if I have 4 hours to watch a movie, I will think about renting GWTW. Yay for no copyrights, so you can read free stuff :)

::hugs::
 
posted by [identity profile] laurainlimbo.livejournal.com at 01:06pm on 17/03/2010
well I'd suggest watching GWTW in segments, an hour here and there. all at once it's pretty tiresome:)

*hugs*
 
posted by [identity profile] phantomsgyrl.livejournal.com at 11:53am on 11/03/2010
I am not going to see 'Alice' either. I didn't like Willy Wonka (the original is my favorite childhood movie) and kinda gave up on Tim Burton Movies after that.

About 'Romeo and Juliet' with Leonardo, the first time I watched it; I turned it off after 15 minutes because I so didn't 'get it' and I thought it was a travesty to film my favorite playwright in that way. Fast forward a few years, I retried it after I saw 'Moulin Rouge' and saw it in a very different light. The setting may have changed but it so stays true to the original story.

Michelle
 
posted by [identity profile] laurainlimbo.livejournal.com at 11:11pm on 11/03/2010
the original Willy Wonka is my favorite too - Gene Wilder was just perfect in that role, and I had trouble even watching Burton's remake.

I guess I should revisit that Baz Luhrman version of Romeo and Juliet (with Leo DiCaprio)... at the time, I just hated him, and I didn't appreciate the creativity. I never did watch Moulin Rouge, though I've always wanted to:) maybe that will also change my mind on R + J.

 
posted by [identity profile] dawnie1970.livejournal.com at 12:23pm on 11/03/2010
I felt sad when I read he deviated so much from the plot as well, it's a brilliant book series, and deserves a faithful, epic rendition of it on film. *hugs you close*

Of course you will hon, give yourself some time! *extra encouraging hugs*
 
posted by [identity profile] laurainlimbo.livejournal.com at 11:13pm on 11/03/2010
thanks Dawnie! I know I need to be more patient with myself on the studying - I just feel like I should be learning more, but life has thrown me some curves lately!

*snuggles close*
 
posted by [identity profile] bitchygrrl.livejournal.com at 01:44pm on 11/03/2010
I love Before Night Falls and Javier Bardeem is also in it, so if you can get a copy try to see it.

I agree with you about Willie Wonka I like the attempt at a darker tone but it didn't work.

Now I have reservations about seeing Alice I am a stickler in some ways about not changing the author's intent. Some things you don't mess with, which is why I have yet to see a single movie version of Little Women because the slightest deviation would make me rage. Some things are best avoided. Oh while I was in Vegas I saw a rare edition of Alice it was $4500. I wish.

Oddly though I am fond of Baz Lurhman's R&J because it sticks to the original language, though one scene is missing. To me Shakesspeare was a showman and I think he would have changed settings, etc to grab his audience. I mean he was adapting himself. So for me I always enjoy seeing what new settings directors can come up with for his work. Now when they start playing with the language I have issues. I do have mixed emotions about things like Scotland, PA because it's not really a Shakespeare adaptation, but I'm still iffy on them. Have you seen that? Sorry to to be off on an a tangent but I love Shakesspeare.
 
posted by [identity profile] laurainlimbo.livejournal.com at 11:24pm on 11/03/2010
I've got to see if I can find Before Night Falls - I love Javier Bardem and - Johnny in drag is worth it alone! though he is also in drag in Ed Wood . that's a hilarious movie!

I saw that version of Little Women with Winona Ryder, but I'm ashamed to admit I never read the book in entirety. I really should. did that movie version stray from the book a lot?

we had a great hard-bound version of Lewis Carroll's works, including Alice's Adventures , and it had color pictures. I think we sold it at a garage sale, though now I realize I should have kept it!

I suppose you're right about Shakespeare - but what do you think of that Hamlet with Ethan Hawke that was set in modern-day NYC? Being the purist, I preferred the version with Mel Gibson:) oh they should never play with the language of Shakespeare - but I guess that's why I had trouble with that 2000 version of Hamlet - seeing people in a modern-day American city (New York) reciting Shakespeare line-for-line is a bit awkward for me.

No I didn't see Scotland, PA - but after reading this synopsis: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0265713/plotsummary
I laughed that they list William Shakespeare as a writer! that sounds nothing like MacBeth! I'm with you on being iffy on those kinds of "loose" adaptations. if it's not even close, then why call it an adaptation?
 
posted by [identity profile] 1-rhiannon-1.livejournal.com at 05:15pm on 11/03/2010
It's not actually a remake of the previous movies/cartoons/or novels though - it's an extension of the story, 13 years after the fact. Not that that matters but I just thought I'd throw that out there.
 
posted by [identity profile] laurainlimbo.livejournal.com at 10:49pm on 11/03/2010
that is funny because that review I read didn't mention that the movie is meant to be 13 years later. I figured because Alice is older that it's meant to be an extension or different adaptation of the story, but I hadn't really known that. so that makes more sense:) I wish I had more desire to see this version because Alice's Adventures in Wonderland was one of my favorite books growing up. It's so complex, and perhaps that's why Tim Burton is drawn to it. But I guess I'd love to see what he'd do with the original story, too:)
 
posted by [identity profile] 1-rhiannon-1.livejournal.com at 02:10pm on 12/03/2010
Oh really? Wow, that makes all the difference with this one! I looked it up on imdb to see a brief synopsis when I first heard it was coming out and it mentioned that it was an extension. And I love what Tim did with the Cheshire Cat - he was my favorite part :o)
 
posted by [identity profile] laurainlimbo.livejournal.com at 05:09am on 13/03/2010
I love the Cheshire Cat - that does look really cool!
ext_249520: (Movie night)
posted by [identity profile] toadflax234.livejournal.com at 09:52pm on 11/03/2010
I love Johnny Depp, but I don't always like the films he does.

Love Pirates, didn't like Sweeney Todd.

Love Chocolat, really not sure about Willy Wonka.

I'm still undecided whether to see Alice. Hannah loved it. But then she hasn't read the book...
 
posted by [identity profile] laurainlimbo.livejournal.com at 11:33pm on 11/03/2010
oh man, I forgot about Chocolat - Johnny was at his most sexy in that movie! but Willy Wonka - nightmare!!!!!

haven't watched Sweeney yet - wasn't in the mood last night. I'll let you know my verdict after I watch it:)

oh, tsk tsk! Hannah must must read the book!! Alice's Adventures in Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass are classics, and great for sparking imagination! that's another reason I fear for our future generations - they will just see these wild, colorful movies and not use their own imaginations as when they just read the book. Does Hannah like reading?

anyway, enough of my ranting and opinions LOL:)

ext_249520: (Default)
posted by [identity profile] toadflax234.livejournal.com at 11:36pm on 11/03/2010
Rawr... very sexy Johnny in Chocolat...

You might like Sweeney... give it a chance.

Hannah loves reading, I'm glad to say. It's probably on her list - I'll have to make sure she reads it. I know I have a copy. I also have it as an ebook on my iPhone. Lol.
 
posted by [identity profile] laurainlimbo.livejournal.com at 02:32am on 13/03/2010
yes, Chocolat is a movie I'd like to own!

Loved Sweeney - but you already know that - LOL:) I'm late with this reply!

wow - books on your iphone? that would hurt my eyes to read something so small ^_^
ext_249520: (Default)
posted by [identity profile] toadflax234.livejournal.com at 05:24pm on 13/03/2010
I have Chocolat on DVD... haven't watched it in a little while though. Hmm...

It's OK on the iPhone, surprisingly. You can change the size of the font too. Too big a font and you only end up with about six words on the screen though. Lol.
 
posted by [identity profile] laurainlimbo.livejournal.com at 10:55pm on 15/03/2010
I'm ok with watching movies on my computer, or even reading a book since it's a big screen, but reading books on a phone is really too weird a concept for me. I'll probably never catch onto that technology:) I love books too!
 
posted by [identity profile] bayareajenn.livejournal.com at 09:54pm on 11/03/2010
Yeah, I read the same review. I feel the same way about the movie. I had been looking forward to it back when they put out the pictures. It's hard to imagine where it could go wrong with the cast they have, but it's looking like it's just going to be a merchandising opportunity with no real substance.

I hate that the movies are basically strip-mining our childhood favorites. I worry about when/if I have a kid...are they going to read the books, or are they going to just watch the movies and never really have a chance to exercise their own imaginations?
 
posted by [identity profile] laurainlimbo.livejournal.com at 11:28pm on 11/03/2010
I totally agree with you about this movie being a merchandising opportunity, and another chance to cash in on the team of Depp and Burton. I loved them in their earlier movies, like Ed Wood and Edward Scissorhands... but lately they're getting too weird for me - LOL!

and I also agree with you that kids will see Burton's version of Alice and they won't know how wonderful the original is! Hopefully, as I said to another friend, they will be intrigued enough to want to read the books, but do kids even read anymore? I worry about that stuff too! I want to make sure my niece and nephew read the classics - it's my job to buy them books as they get older, and I've already got a set of The Chronicles of Narnia to give to my nephew when he's old enough. I better go out and buy a good version of Lewis Carroll's classic too:)


wolfpurplemoon: A cute cartoon character with orange hair, glasses, kitty ears and holding a coffee, the colours are bright and pinkish/purple (mad hatter)
posted by [personal profile] wolfpurplemoon at 10:41pm on 11/03/2010
That's a fun article about Johnny Depp's roles, while I (obviously) knew that his roles were not of the norm (which is part of the appeal) I'd never seen it analysed quite that way before.

I couldn't watch Before Night Falls, I think I ended up skipping through it to find Johnny's scenes, the rest of it didn't interest me at all.

As for film adaptations of books (or Shakespeare), I'm afraid I have to disagree with you on that. Purism is commendable but artistic vision does not need to be restricted by source material, especially when the source has been adapted many times.

Off the top of my head, there is one film (Manhunter) I didn't like because it managed to throw out the best material of a book I'd enjoyed (and the title so I can forgive it somewhat and pretend it's not a Hannibal Lecter film) but I've come to realise that film is an entirely different artistic medium to books so there have to be differences.

In Charlie and the Chocolate factory Johnny's actual performance may not be exactly like the Wonka of the book, but the film itself is a far truer adaptation than the Gene Wilder version (which, incidentally, Roald Dahl himself hated and they rewrote his screenplay, although they left him with a writing credit), though that is not the main reason I prefer the newer adaptation.

I was probably just the right age when Baz Luhman's Romeo + Juliet came out and I really enjoyed it (and I agree with [livejournal.com profile] bitchygrrl on that, even our English teacher allowed us to watch the film when we were studying the play!).

But anyway, I've just come back from seeing Alice in Wonderland and I thoroughly enjoyed it, I can't disagree more with that review you've linked to (apart from the dig at 3D) Empire's is far more even handed here.

The only reason anyone could possibly think that the Mad Hatter is Alice's love interest is because all the people from her real life are represented by characters in Wonderland and the Mad Hatter appears to be the man everyone wants her to marry and I suppose he also represents her father (he definitely has multiple personalities) so it's more of a paternal love than a romantic one.

Well, this has turned into a long comment! I'm not sure if I've managed to properly explain my thoughts, I know my feelings but can't always express them coherently!

Good luck with your Japanese lessons! *hug*
 
posted by [identity profile] laurainlimbo.livejournal.com at 11:03pm on 11/03/2010
I know lots of people disagree with me on the Shakespeare adaptations, and I have liked several film versions of his works, including Zefferelli's Romeo and Juliet which came out the year I was born, and which was the one I watched in high school (yes, I'm that old - LOL!) I guess I was going through a phase at time, and couldn't see the creative aspects of Baz Luhrman's Romeo and Juliet when it came out. There was another Shakespeare adaptation that I tried watching, Hamlet with Ethan Hawke (2000) - it was set in modern-day New York City, and I couldn't watch more than 10 minutes. it just felt weird. I loved Mel Gibson's Hamlet though! Like I said, I guess I'm just a purist at heart:)

I have heard people say that Burton's version of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory was truer to the book, but I grew up with Gene Wilder as Willy Wonka, so I just couldn't enjoy Johnny's freaky adaptation of the character. it comes down to personal taste, I guess.

and while I'm all for artistic vision in adapting a book, I just hate to think that younger generations may not know how wonderful the original books were if they only see this Burton version of Alice. That's what another friend said here too. I hope they'll be intrigued enough by it to read the books and see what they're missing:) Shakespeare too!

thanks for the long comment- I replied with the same - LOL! it's fun to see different viewpoints:)
Edited Date: 2010-03-11 11:06 pm (UTC)
wolfpurplemoon: A cute cartoon character with orange hair, glasses, kitty ears and holding a coffee, the colours are bright and pinkish/purple (duckling6)
posted by [personal profile] wolfpurplemoon at 11:52pm on 13/03/2010
I would also hope that any film adaptation would make children curious to read the original book, unless it's Twilight of course! :D
 
posted by [identity profile] laurainlimbo.livejournal.com at 10:44pm on 15/03/2010
sadly they probably prefer reading Twilight!

and this is why I'm making myself responsible for buying classic books for my niece and nephew, in case my sister doesn't:) I'll read with them when I visit!
 
posted by [identity profile] selvatica.livejournal.com at 10:19pm on 13/03/2010
I'm afraid I do disagree with you. I absolutely adore Pride and Prejudice and the BBC adaptation brought the book to life and was extremely true to the book. With this in mind, I was a bit reluctant to go and see the 2005 film with Kiera Knightley. I felt that a 2 hour film could not do the book justice. However, I went. It wasn't the same, by any means, but what stood out for me were the differences which gave the film it's own charm. And, I have it on DVD.
I'm also surprised about your comment about Burtons/Depp's Willy Wonka. At least that version was close to the book, where the previous rubbish is not!
As for Alice in Wonderland, I've never read the book, but the film was absolutely amazing and I'm sure it will stand out on it's own as a brilliant bit of filmmaking :)
 
posted by [identity profile] laurainlimbo.livejournal.com at 11:10pm on 13/03/2010
oh hi - you changed your user name - at first I was like, who is this? but it's you:) what made you decide to change your name?

well I guess I have to sort of clarify what I meant about adaptations. I think they can work if they don't completely stray from the author's intent or style. It's okay to add a few things here or there, if it seems to fit the author's original ideas. It's tricky, to be sure:) I really loved that BBC version of Pride and Prejudice too, and I've liked quite a few Shakespeare movie adaptations too. I didn't see the film version because I don't like Keira Knightley. I know that's shallow but oh well. Adapting a book to the screen is tough, and it's not always a bad thing. it's also a personal taste, too I guess.
and that's what it comes down to for me with Burton's Willy Wonka. I've heard from many people that it's closer to the book than the earlier version with Gene Wilder. But I guess I just personally didn't like what Johnny Depp did with his characterization of Wonka. I love Johnny, quite a bit. But his freakish makeup and silly hair was just over the top for me (and I feel the same about his Mad Hatter in the Alice movie). I grew up watching Gene Wilder's interpretation, and it's just become a part of my childhood. To me, Gene will always be Willy Wonka. And I felt that movie was easier to watch then Burton's frenetic remake. I got tired watching Burton's version.

Perhaps I'm being a bit too hasty in my decision not to see Burton's Alice - but I guess it is just personal preference, again. I didn't realize until someone pointed out to me that it's not really an adaptation, as much as an extension of the book, as it's many years later in time. Creatively, I'm sure it's a great film. and maybe I'll see it someday:)

sorry for the long reply - but thanks! I love these kinds of discussions:)

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